tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2197404598798041270.post8061766611688612389..comments2019-09-03T15:28:52.957-05:00Comments on The Predestined Blog: The Dangers of IHOP and the "IHOP Dilemma"The Predestined Bloghttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01587261989476613134noreply@blogger.comBlogger118125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2197404598798041270.post-55808976070777772882015-09-29T22:38:08.886-05:002015-09-29T22:38:08.886-05:00The Predestined Blog has nailed the majority of th...The Predestined Blog has nailed the majority of the issues right on the head. Thank you for using the Word in order to dissect the beast as well as the Harlot "church" system in general. The Holy Spirit has been speaking and highlighting the same exact Scriptures that you used to show their aberrant and unlawful practices however I believe God always uses these heresies to test the hearts of the people like in the case of the Israelites in the Wilderness and the church in the NT. Once the Barley(is harvested He will cut it short in righteousness. I do believe they are a lawless bunch but they also will be saved and raised at the second resurrection with the wheat and the grapes.<br /><br />ZadokiteAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2197404598798041270.post-40295309665809299422015-09-29T16:09:30.919-05:002015-09-29T16:09:30.919-05:00The manifest functions of ihop appear to draw peop...The manifest functions of ihop appear to draw people close to Jesus, mostly through experiences not based upon the bible. Their latent function however is to bring people under the headship of ihop and it's false prophecies. The 8 Day Immerse program is to indoctrinate you into the so called "prophetic history" given by God to Mike and through his so called "prophets," who work more like psychics that a true prophet of God. NOT ONE WORD from the prophets of the Bible "fell to the ground." The real truth of the matter concerning ihop is that your prophetic history is changed 5 times in its rebelling over the last 30 years. Things have been added and substracted to it in order to benefit them. Do a search on it and you will clearly see this so is God in the business of an ever changing prophecy? If it's truly of God than the prophecies haven't need for them to change that many times. Sad part is ihopers will defend this so called prophetic garbage and their leader over the very Word of God of which Peter says is, " the more surer word of prophecy." Same thing was happening back in the days of the Apostles as now and the apostles did their best to warn the people of the,"men who would creep in awares and deceive many," as Jude said. Stop seeking soulish and sensational experiences and just read your bibles until you know it first cause in my experience over the last 4 years shows that their is a great need for this amongst those at ihop. Saul was for the people and the people in like fashion were for Saul. It's all about the promotion of self at ihop albeit under the guise of building the kingdom which is really Mikes kingdom. He said he will be the most famous name in Christianity to have lived and their you have it, a self willed narcissist performing damage control at all cost in order to preserve the OneThing he created. Do not be fooled the OneThing that they are truly about is ihop and not Jesus. No doubt God allows all this it to happen in order to test the hearts of the people so that those who are truly approved of Him will be made manifest by discerning the past and current heresies of men by knowing the Bible. God showed His acts to the children in the wilderness but He showed Moses His Ways. That we may all learn His ways which comes from the reading of the Word and not through experiences outside of it. Be richly blessed in Christ!<br /><br />ZadokiteAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2197404598798041270.post-35433482091339583442014-07-11T22:37:23.958-05:002014-07-11T22:37:23.958-05:00@ Anonymous
Of course not! Because that is not ho...@ Anonymous<br /><br />Of course not! Because that is not how cults operate. Let me quote from you something from http://www.cultwatch.com/howcultswork.html<br /><br />"A cult will have a slick well-rehearsed Public Relations front which hides what the group is really like. You will hear how they help the poor, or support research, or peace, or the environment. They will tell you how happy you will be in their group (and everyone in the cult will always seem very happy and enthusiastic, mainly because they have been told to act happy and will get in trouble if they don’t). But you will not be told what life is really like in the group, nor what they really believe. These things will be introduced to you slowly, one at a time, so you will not notice the gradual change, until eventually you are practicing and believing things which at the start would have caused you to run a mile."<br /><br />You are not going to find it on their home page, they are not that foolish. The Predestined Bloghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01587261989476613134noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2197404598798041270.post-8295556107970904732014-07-11T15:42:20.972-05:002014-07-11T15:42:20.972-05:00I'm confused because ihopkc.org has nothing th...I'm confused because ihopkc.org has nothing that states the information that you have on what they believe. My only guesses are that you have old information and something changed between then and now; or, maybe it is all carefully concealed covert beliefs that only the top people know; or it is not so much on purpose as there are secondary false teachings circulating that seem close to the truth but have a slight twist in them.<br /><br />Personally, I don't follow Mike Bickle directly, and don't even read much of his material. I am not likely going to attend the schools, either. In reading the statement of faith and affirmations and denials at ihopkc.org, I really don't see where these other ideas you talk about are coming from.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2197404598798041270.post-45855750038378826292014-04-30T19:08:13.220-05:002014-04-30T19:08:13.220-05:00Pt2.
It is ironic, God has encouraged me to write...Pt2.<br /><br />It is ironic, God has encouraged me to write a book about the issues of false prophets and true prophets, among other themes, in what used to be my personal journal as a prophet. Having knowledge of the continuing spiritual disaster and harm IHOP is causing, all the while fooling almost everyone into believing they are true prophets, it's hideous. Though I did not realize just how hideous until I came across writings like yours.<br />Anyone who defends IHOP is a fool who has been deceived by demons, and they will be judged for their actions by God in the next life. As for people like Mike Bickle, he is either delusional or was visited by a demon, or he just made it all up. That is not to say that visions cannot still happen, but his ministry bears only rotting fruit, and his whole organization is riddled with demonic influence. It's as though not a single one of them has the gift of discernment, which goes hand in hand with a calling to prophet hood.<br /><br />But, I suppose in the grand scheme of things, it is all irrelevant. It is unfortunate, but IHOP will only grow stronger and deceive more people. That is the future. Some can be warned, but I suspect most will ignore it. Once you know the true name of this nation we live in, its spiritual name, many things become clear.<br /><br />Nevertheless, my thanks to you for this blog, and for your post and writings about IHOP; at least if no one takes my word and Scriptural arguments for it, I can direct them to your words.<br /><br />Signed, <br /><br />A true prophet of God.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2197404598798041270.post-64458925487238522052014-04-30T19:07:16.581-05:002014-04-30T19:07:16.581-05:00It is very useful to have someone like yourself sp...It is very useful to have someone like yourself speak for us. I am a true prophet of God and have been from a very young age. Some time ago I was encouraged to visit an ihop center that was very popular where I am from in California, but I was not eager to go. Eventually I went later, and my, what a disappointment. Fortunately God has blessed me with a powerful discernment, and I at once could sense spirits of deception and lies in that place, and some time later God sent me out to speak to those lost people. Not a single one of them openly admitted to having a calling as prophets of God, but claimed instead that they were not prophets, yet had the gift of prophecy. They were full of lies and deceit, though whether they knew it or not was uncertain.<br /><br />There is little more that is a detriment to God's kingdom than false prophets and false teachers. It is incredibly aggravating to work as one of God's true prophets when we are lumped in with the fools like those at IHOP and our authority is constantly called into question, or compared to other "prophets" from places like those.<br /><br />My city is covered with churches of all kinds, but many of them are false and rotting. And there is that den of false prophets from Kansas, who moved to my city from that place. They have, as you have written, formed a cultic experience around themselves, having not only a "prophetic" ministry, but an intercessory prayer ministry and even a healing ministry. I know some of those involved in the intercessory and healing ministry, and they were stolen away by this group and the demons within, and these other "ministries", although legitimate, are used as a front by demons to cover the false prophetic ministry they are operating with.<br /><br />False prophets should get the death penalty in my opinion, because the work they do is like that of spiritual genocide, dragging down the souls of millions to their doom. A true prophet of God is not 65% accurate, not even 95% accurate. A true prophet is either 100% accurate or they would never dare to speak falsely on God's behalf. Some of the things they may prophesy may not come to pass for decades, but they are true servants of God and anyone with the gift of discernment will know who is true and who is false. That nonsense you wrote about, how IHOP has done away with gifts of discernment and focused more on "mysticism", that nonsense has flooded mainstream Christianity, it is a scourge upon churches everywhere!<br /><br />The evils they are committing in that place, it is abominable. They are even teaching that they themselves can give gifts of prophecy to others, just by laying hands down on people. Well, one who has the gift of healing can lay hands and pray for healing, and one who is a strong prayer ministry can lay hands on those who wish to be made strong in prayer, and one with mighty faith can pray to God and lay hands and ask for faith in that person they lay hands on.<br /><br />But the realm of prophets is worlds beyond anything of normal Christian understanding. Only God can gifts of the Spirit, and the gift of prophecy can be given only by God alone; no one else. You do not receive the gift of prophecy, nor do you receive a calling to prophecy, from mere humans, just by having some deluded fools lay their hands on you! There are people in my city who have undergone this "experience" and now believe that they are prophets, and they prophesy as IF they know God's will. It makes me want to tear out my hair. The amount of confusion and delusion and deception that is being propagated in this city is absurd.<br /><br /><br />To the best of my knowledge and discernment, there are only two true prophets of God in my city of over 145,000, but it seems there are dozens, if not hundreds, of false prophets wandering about.<br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2197404598798041270.post-12144942160496248632013-05-26T04:52:40.120-05:002013-05-26T04:52:40.120-05:00Dear Nu and/or Anonymous,
This post is neither ma...Dear Nu and/or Anonymous,<br /><br />This post is neither made out of malice, or filled with filth. <br /><br />Christians were thrown to the lions, thrust through with stakes, crucified, beheaded and killed in many tortuous ways for taking a stance -- a public stance against faulty, dangerous beliefs and/or doctrines in years gone by. Today we see the same type of murders occurring in countries uniting themselves with Allah. Quite sad as they too were made in God's own image.<br /><br />My point being is that while you take verbal jabs at this author, you fail to back up your "opinions" with biblical proof. That simply turns your words into nothing but "opinions" and as we all know, every man on earth has one.<br /><br />For whatever reason, I am unable to post under my user name today but do invite you to stop by my blog as well. IHOPisNewAge.Wordpress.com -- as like this author, I have VERY close ties to IHOP and have previously LOST family members to IHOP. I have personally seen the danger(s) involved in IHOP and can tell you that the contemplative prayer Mike Bickle promotes is nothing short of the demonic practice of mysticism.<br /><br />In short, IHOP endorses OCCULTIC practices and yet touts them to be God-inspired.Annunkhttp://ihopisnewage.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2197404598798041270.post-5071192724609713992013-05-25T09:39:01.082-05:002013-05-25T09:39:01.082-05:00I don't mean this in a demeaning way, but it a...I don't mean this in a demeaning way, but it appears you are confused on what gossip is. The definition of gossip is "Casual or unconstrained conversation or reports about other people, typically involving details that are not confirmed as being true."<br /><br />There is no gossip on this blog as everything I mention is referenced. To point documented errors in someone, even though it makes them look bad, is not gossip. <br /><br />Do not make the error of accusing people of sin when they have not. Could my words be kinder or more humble at times of course, but there is no gossip here.The Predestined Bloghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01587261989476613134noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2197404598798041270.post-90948447384528238392013-05-25T00:06:33.750-05:002013-05-25T00:06:33.750-05:00I have met and talked with many people who go to I...I have met and talked with many people who go to IHOP (including those in my family). Believe me, I have called them out.<br /><br />Btw Nu, I have documented all my "indirect false accusations" and carefully built my argument on the Bible. Did I say "I don't like IHOP bc i've been there and it was bad."<br /><br />Merely closing your eyes to the sin of IHOP is not acceptable. Don't close your eyes to the Bible! And don't be one of those people who think both sides can be right and that all that needs to happen is for us to have a talk.<br /><br />The Predestined Bloghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01587261989476613134noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2197404598798041270.post-85415344754316274692013-05-24T23:41:40.538-05:002013-05-24T23:41:40.538-05:00My name is Nu and I was the last comment and didn&...My name is Nu and I was the last comment and didn't make the previous response before mine. I'm just a little tired of the malice and filth from this blog from both sides. I don't see any fruit from it. If you are really against it, how about meet with Bickle and call him out. Indirect conversations like these are like Gossips! Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2197404598798041270.post-57166744523211524422013-05-24T23:34:32.600-05:002013-05-24T23:34:32.600-05:00@ Anonymous
What wonderful biblical defense. Oh w...@ Anonymous<br /><br />What wonderful biblical defense. Oh wait... <br /><br />Thanks for proving my point :)The Predestined Bloghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01587261989476613134noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2197404598798041270.post-58855616014035635992013-05-24T23:33:06.339-05:002013-05-24T23:33:06.339-05:00This blog is laughable. Let's just bless this ...This blog is laughable. Let's just bless this man. There's no need to argue observations and indirect false accusations. There will be no end to this conversation. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2197404598798041270.post-10770457709855613222013-05-24T23:24:24.234-05:002013-05-24T23:24:24.234-05:00@ Anonymous
I feel sorrow for you in my heart and...@ Anonymous<br /><br />I feel sorrow for you in my heart and everyone who reads this blog should as well. You are as 2 Peter 2:2 puts it one of they " Many will follow their sensuality, and because of them the way of the truth will be maligned." You are like so many I have met from IHOP. When someone presents an argument from the Bible you don't have a good enough understanding of the Bible to have a counter argument. What you just did - ignore biblical arguments - and fall back on your limited experience at IHOP. Just like many IHOPers, you sadly are not well versed enough to make a defense, b/c you do not know the Bible well. This, my friends, is the unfortunate reality of IHOP. Avoid the Bible and really learning it and proclaim the so-called good they see.The Predestined Bloghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01587261989476613134noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2197404598798041270.post-85329106220585122122013-05-11T22:41:51.968-05:002013-05-11T22:41:51.968-05:00Perhaps one of the most blasphemous articles I'...Perhaps one of the most blasphemous articles I've ever read... This is unfortunate. We continuously pray for revival yet we immediately discredit an authentic movement of the Spirit of God as soon as we see one.... this worlds not in need of more Pharisees, it needs more Jesus...People who are willing to sacrifice religion for Intimacy with God, and do as the fathers doing. Ihop is what it is today because of Mike Bickles obedience to the voice of God. Doing the works of God will always cause us to face persecution, clearly, in Mike Bickles case, this is no different. But Bickle is a radical lover for Jesus, and no persecution is going to diminish this mans obedience to the kingdom of God, you can try to diminish this man of God all that you want to, but Bickles heart is fully devoted to God and to the cause of Jesus Christ, and trust me, your not going to cause him, or God, to stumble. Ihop is not a cult, it's an authentic representation of the New Testament Church, with the goal of equipping the saints and sending missionaries out to all of the unreached people and people groups of this world, presenting the True Gospel, without compromise.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2197404598798041270.post-1892790167009504082012-12-04T19:11:28.181-06:002012-12-04T19:11:28.181-06:00JD
Tyler Deaton was listed online on the IHOP webs...JD<br />Tyler Deaton was listed online on the IHOP website until Nov 4,12 when they removed his name. <br /><br />Check the IHOP beliefs and read about Bridal Paradigm. Very sexual slant. Also some of their music is slanted that way as well. "Make love to Jesus"<br /><br />That sort of helped him out in getting where he ended up. Just a tad..Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2197404598798041270.post-54347882779491001392012-12-03T18:52:00.409-06:002012-12-03T18:52:00.409-06:00Stanmagicman, just to be fair it isn't right t...Stanmagicman, just to be fair it isn't right to lump the recent tragedy in Kansas City in with IHOP. I've made a number of trips to IHOP-KC and saw both the good and the bad but I can tell you that they would never condone or abet this.. After my final trip the Lord showed me the deception there with false spirits and false prophecies, so I don't think I'll ever go back unless the Lord sends me back on some special assignment. I was protected during my trips there and also gained discernment.<br /><br />IHOP is a massive network, and anyone can say they are a part of it. Just because the murderers attended IHOP isn't an indictment in and of itself, anymore than accusing all members of Ted Haggard's church of homosexual sin before that scandal broke.JDnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2197404598798041270.post-29553608098773142742012-11-18T17:32:59.831-06:002012-11-18T17:32:59.831-06:0021Actually IHOP started about 1986/1987 and Mike B...21Actually IHOP started about 1986/1987 and Mike Bickle has changed the name of the church numerous time just like his Studies, Books and conferences. He has had a revolving door of Good Godly people/leaders and misguided Blatently False Prophet/teacher come and go(Fall) throughour the years With this most recent Killing of a House church leaders wife, it goes to show WHO has spiritual and biblical discernment. The house leader coax a house member to kill her after several weeks of abuse by other house members.stanmagicmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05690818246071354623noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2197404598798041270.post-8396305146756370432011-11-30T08:57:26.989-06:002011-11-30T08:57:26.989-06:00Dear Anonymous,
Thanks for your prayer that my ey...Dear Anonymous,<br /><br />Thanks for your prayer that my eyes be open. One thing I see is how little I see. Having an advanced degree certainly doesn't make me immune from poor judgement--indeed, it could even make me more vulnerable to foolish thinking (and pride). So, I appreciate your support.<br /><br />I'm not part of IHOP, and my goal isn't to give a full defense of IHOP. My goal is to help promote careful, sound reasoning. ...But even more, I want to build up and encourage people in the Bride of Christ. So, again, thanks for building me up by your prayer.<br /><br />Dear John,<br />I apologize for not answering your IHOP dilemma. Thanks for your grace. I'm not sure I fully grasp the force of it. Suppose there is a speaker at IHOP who consistently gave true prophecies from the Lord. If a God-loving Christian, such as yourself, believes this person's words are not from God, then it seems to me that God who judges the heart would know the skeptic's motives. If the motives are pure (and your motives seem pure to me), then their motives are not to be blamed. And if the prophecies are false, then the motives are still considered. <br /><br />I do apologize for not grasping the force of the dilemma. (As I indicated above, having an advanced degree doesn't mean I see things clearly. :)) <br /><br />From the bottom of my heart: many blessings to you and your ministry,<br /><br />~JoshAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2197404598798041270.post-14046704131298805912011-11-28T23:20:17.010-06:002011-11-28T23:20:17.010-06:00Josh,
I am a little unsure as to why you are unsu...Josh,<br /><br />I am a little unsure as to why you are unsure with that example (!). If a direct audible voice or vision comes and tells you that he has the true message of the gospel (which I can safely assume was presumably missing from the church) is not indicative a false prophecy - What is? Actually, there are very few other things that can be worse. <br /><br />The only other thing IHOP is involved with that can be worse is their affiliation with the Coptic Church in Egypt who believe in the ancient heresy of monophysitism (a heresy of the nature of Jesus - cant get worse than that really...).<br /><br />You have still yet to answer my question Josh.<br /><br />1) Are the prophecies at IHOP true?<br /><br />If Yes - What does it mean for me (and many other Christians) who oppose them?<br /><br />If No - They are in SERIOUS error and should be opposed with vigor.<br /><br />As I have mentioned in the IHOP dilemma, there is no "middle ground" here. Either they are outstanding messengers of God or in outright gross sin.<br /><br />I just ask that you please answer these two questions and try not to veer off topic.The Predestined Bloghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01587261989476613134noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2197404598798041270.post-30140293176522660342011-11-28T23:20:02.468-06:002011-11-28T23:20:02.468-06:00Thank you!!!! for a wonderful blog & post. I w...Thank you!!!! for a wonderful blog & post. I will be following it from now on.Luciana DeVitohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12667174756512028507noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2197404598798041270.post-40193235555230253592011-11-28T21:52:53.762-06:002011-11-28T21:52:53.762-06:00Dear Josh,
With your having a PhD, I’m surprised...Dear Josh, <br /><br />With your having a PhD, I’m surprised that you failed to address anything regarding the spiritually elite attitude of the IHOP attendees. I’m sure you’re aware of the fact that the general attitude of IHOP interns is one of superiority – that they somehow have an “edge” over the entire rest of the world albeit Christian or not.<br /><br />My own now grown child spent years with IHOP and has yet to even be willing to discuss anything about it – other than saying, “there was a LOT I totally disagreed with when I was there.”<br /><br />So Josh, your final statement, “I also hope that people won't be blocked from discovering what God can do in and through them through IHOP's ministry”, leads me to believe that 1. You are indeed an active IHOP member and 2. You’re quite actively in agreement with IHOP in lieu of the fact that you refer to IHOP as a “ministry”. I hope and pray your eyes will one day be opened to the spiritual deception and damage that has been performed courtesy of IHOP and its leaders.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2197404598798041270.post-23282686614560203932011-11-28T20:36:07.200-06:002011-11-28T20:36:07.200-06:00I'm going to press just a little further about...I'm going to press just a little further about your reasons to think IHOP has given false prophecies. To simplify things, I'll focus on just one example (because it seems to me representative).<br /><br />You give several reasons against Prophecy 1, but none explicitly appeal to scripture, except perhaps the last, where you write, "They have the “true” message of the Gospel … So they have a competing Gospel to historic Christianity (cf. Gal 1:8)". I fail to see how the prophecy you quoted implied that they are preaching a different gospel... Seems like a big leap to me.<br /><br />~JoshAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2197404598798041270.post-85720273241904768252011-11-28T09:43:36.793-06:002011-11-28T09:43:36.793-06:00...cont from above
The best definition of sola s......cont from above<br /><br /><br />The best definition of sola scriptura can be found from Dr. James White’s debate with a Roman Catholic on this very topic - “All that one must believe to be a Christian is found in Scripture and in no other source. That which is not found in Scripture is not binding upon the Christian conscience. To be more specific, I provide the following definition. The Bible claims to be the sole and sufficient rule of faith for the Christian Church. The Scriptures are not in need of any supplement [audio, visual, or written].” - James White – Debate on Sola Scriptura v.s. Roman Catholic Apologist Gerry Matatics<br /><br />As you can plainly see, these kind of prophecies definitely supplement the scripture. In a nutshell, there are no more gifts/offices that have the ability to add to God’s word (ie apostles and prophets) therefore the canon is closed (contra Roman Catholicism). If you look at other charismatic literature, you will find that what they call prophecy is nowhere near the level of the OT and NT b/c they do not want to violate sola scriptura. Their prophecies are nothing like IHOPs b/c they are fully aware of the ramifications of violating sola scriptura.<br /><br />God bless you and may He strengthen you with His Word through this dialogue. <br /><br />PS BTW The plethora of unique end times prophecy plus their belief of postribulationalism would count as a an addition to the prophecy of the book of Revelation hands down. Seriously, if this doesn't count as adding onto the book of Revelation, I don't know what does...The Predestined Bloghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01587261989476613134noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2197404598798041270.post-49960012459518068952011-11-28T09:43:26.275-06:002011-11-28T09:43:26.275-06:00Josh,
Thank you for criticisms – I am surely not ...Josh,<br /><br />Thank you for criticisms – I am surely not above it and appreciate you sharpening my arugments!<br /><br />Consider these following premises:<br /><br />Premise 1: Cessationism is true – IHOP is false and no refutation needed<br /><br />Premise 2: Prophecy still happens – Evangelical orthodoxy has always believed in sola scriptura and that the office of apostle has ceased. IHOP disagrees and is not orthodox.<br /><br />Premise 3: Direct prophecy still happens – We still must validate if IHOP’s prophecies are true or false<br /><br />I believe premise 1 and please see my defense of it in the link in my first reply. The following arguments are only valid if direct prophesy (to the level that IHOP espouses) is open. I believe they must either distance themselves from orthodoxy or just come out and say that all Christian’s must follow what they have been saying from them to be logically consistent. I suppose (though it hurts to say!) logically that the orthodox beliefs of sola scriptura and the end of the office of apostle could be wrong and IHOP write, but nonetheless that would mean that IHOP is no orthodox – I wish they could just come out and say so!<br /><br />Prophecy 1: They’ve been told by church leadership that it is up to them to “usher in” the Second Coming of Jesus. They’ve been encouraged to do away with discernment concerning mystical experiences. They’ve been told that they are “forerunners” of Christ in the same way that John the Baptist was. They’ve been told that the orthodox views of Christianity are weak and it’s up to them to restore the “true” message of the Gospel, using their new “powers from God” to start a revival that will win souls for the Kingdom."<br /><br />This is false in a several ways. First, it is not up to them usher in the second coming of Jesus. This prerogative is not for a specific group.<br /><br />They are told they are forerunners – a term that is used for a specific individual ushering in the messiah ie John the Baptist or Elijah and they falsely attribute it to a group.<br /><br />They have the “true” message of the Gospel … So they have a competing Gospel to historic Christianity (cf. Gal 1:8)<br /><br />Prophecy 2: Some prophets were as low as 10 percent accurate, he said, with some of the "most mature" prophets having a rating "approaching 85 percent to 95 percent<br /><br />Bible nowhere ever supports such a preposterous claim that prophecies are not accurate. <br /><br />Prophecy 3: 'I will change the understanding and expression of Christianity in the earth in one generation.'" <br /><br />That means that there has been some major deficiency in the way God has been working for the past 2000 years with His church? I don’t think such claims can be biblically, historically, or experientially justified.<br /><br />Prophecy 5: There would be an end-time measure of apostolic ministry that would come out of the fruit of the intercession...so like it’s a number of years down the road. But the Lord said that I’m going to bring forth apostles—champions--if the people will live in intercession and ask for them to come...<br /><br />Wow new apostles?!?! They were for the founding of the church (cf Eph 2:20) and even many charismatic groups would not support this as apostles had the authority to speak on God’s behalf.<br /><br />It really does come down to are these prophecies true or not? And we have to choose a side. There is no neutral or middle ground here, hence the “IHOP dilemma.”<br /><br />Please see the article I have linked on sola scriptura by Dr. Greg Bahnsen(I am tempted to put an article online about if necessary).<br /> cont...The Predestined Bloghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01587261989476613134noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2197404598798041270.post-62271736504904343642011-11-28T08:23:52.408-06:002011-11-28T08:23:52.408-06:00Dear John,
Thanks for taking the time to give a t...Dear John,<br /><br />Thanks for taking the time to give a thoughtful reply. I certainly do agree that in principle a correlation (such as between smoking and cancer) can be used to give a caution.<br /><br />I also agree with the Apostle Paul when he writes, "Two or three prophets should speak, and the others should weigh carefully what is said"(I Cor. 14: 29). You listed prophecies that you say are blatantly counter to the biblical witness. I guess that isn't presently so clear to me; it would probably help for me to see an example of scripture that is contradicted.<br /><br />As for sola scriptura, it's never been perfectly clear what it amounts to. But if it amounts to implying that no one receives direct revelation from God today, or that no one can speak as a prophet of God today, then I am sincerely at a loss as to what the biblical evidence for that might be. Not adding to the prophecies of the book of revelation is not the same as not giving any prophecies (as they did in the early churches).<br /><br />Please know, I'm not disagreeing with your overall conclusion (or agreeing with it). I'm merely challenging your arguments--perhaps to sharpen them in the end. :)<br /><br />Blesssings to you,<br />JoshAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com