tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2197404598798041270.post7983446498391804722..comments2019-09-03T15:28:52.957-05:00Comments on The Predestined Blog: Justification by Faith AloneThe Predestined Bloghttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01587261989476613134noreply@blogger.comBlogger2125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2197404598798041270.post-14268974221626745392014-07-19T14:35:28.554-05:002014-07-19T14:35:28.554-05:00Garry,
Thank you for your respectful post. I mus...Garry, <br /><br />Thank you for your respectful post. I must first disagree with one point before we move on. I know that is common internet blog posting jargon more than anything and I'm sure you had good intentions, but you are insinuating that I have made my convictions on this topic b/c I have not done enough research. I can assure you Garry that I have put much effort, read much, literature, and spend LOTS of time on this topic. I did not come to these conclusions out of ignorance, but out of much thoughtful consideration. I think you should look at the literature and even the comments here, there is a great divide between the two sides. I know there is a strong ecumenical movement, but to say there this is a "misunderstanding" is a wholesale ignorance of all blood and ink spilled since the time of Luther, Calvin (Reformation era) to Edwards and Spurgeon (Puritan era) to the current era (Piper and MacArthur). I think it is logical impossible to say it is misunderstanding and that the two sides are common. It is far easier to see how those who espouse your view feel they are right and we are wrong - I disagree, but that is logically plausible. Again the two being similar is not logical plausible from the Bible, history, or the literature out there Please visit www.aomin.org to hear all the debates of Roman Catholics vs Protestant Evangelicals on multiple topics.<br /><br />Second, you are referring to the "Evangelical and Catholics Together" commonly called the ECT for short and I think you need to revisit the issue once again. This came with much furor, uproar, and MUCH controversy with major Evangelical leaders denouncing it as soon as it came out. <br /><br />Third, about the divisions within the Roman Catholic church. I did not mean that they are fighting against each other and did not want to misconstrue that. The main point I am making is that it is a common argument from Roman Catholics that Evangelicals are so divided b/c of all our denominations. We are divided, but it is not like we are so diverse that we do not have a common thread and can all be considered protestant evangelicals. I think that the orders in Catholicism reflect the differences the denominations have with each other - not warring factions, but division among less than primary essentials.<br /><br />You did not comment on my article itself such as the comments of the council of Trent, Ludwig Ott's comments, and the multitude of scholars who agree with justification of works plus faith. You cannot simply brush them aside and quote someone else. There are many problems with Dr. Kreeft's article including not delving into the differences of instantaneous vs progressive justification, salvific process of baptism, imputation of Christ's rigtheosness vs infusion, etc. We indeed have 2 different Gospels.<br />The Predestined Bloghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01587261989476613134noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2197404598798041270.post-2025526111028026842014-07-19T06:44:17.051-05:002014-07-19T06:44:17.051-05:00Hi John I just read a similar article by yourself ...Hi John I just read a similar article by yourself in CARM. I think that you are mistaken in thinking that there remains a divide between the Catholic Church and Protestants in the issue of salvation. I refer you to joint statements by Individual Protestant Churches and the Caholic Church including a joint statement by the Lutheran Church and the Catholic Church. I do not use your term Roman Catholic, as that is not a term which we Catholics relate to, but a term applied by Protestants in an attempt to nullify the meaning of "catholic" which you rightly say means "universal". I referr you to an article by a Catholic Professor from e University of Steubenville which asserts that this apparent division between Catholics and Protestants was based on a misunderstanding of each other's views which you are perpetuating.<br /><br />I also find your comments about supposed divisions within the Catholic Church, ill-informed. You owe it to your many followers to represent the Catholic Church's views accurately, not set up a paper target to be easily torn down. You refere to Orders of priests as "divisions", a claim that is quite erroneous. such Orders simply promote particular charisma, like the Franciscans to which Luther belonged prior to his actions at Wittenburg. There was only one Church founded by Christ, and it was the Protestants who broke away from that Church at the time of the Reformation. You quote early Church Fahers to try to argue that Evangelical Protestant churches "win hands down" in adhering to doctrine of e Early Church Fathers, but those Early Church Father's doctrines are Catholic Fathers, who are held in the highest esteem by the contemporary Catholic Church!! far from those quotes proving your point, ey merely confirm that Current Catholic teaching on salvation is, and always has been, consistent with the faith of the Apostles. As the Steubenville Professor points out, this conflict which cost thousands of lives was sadly a misunderstanding, as each"side" used "faith" in a different sense from each other. when that is understood there is no conflict between the two positions, just as there is no conflict between Paul in Romans and James in his Epistle. I note that you conveniently avoid any reference to James, which Luther apparently referred to as a letter of "straw", but appears in the Protestant and Catholic bibles. <br /><br />So, John, please do some more research instead of causing division where none should exist.<br /><br />The relevant link appears below:<br /><br />http://www.catholiceducation.org/articles/apologetics/ap0027.html <br /><br />Warm regards<br /><br /><br />Garry Bourke<br />Melbourne AustraliaGarry Bourkenoreply@blogger.com